Author Topic: Cheating in MD2  (Read 209256 times)

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Dictator-for-life

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Cheating in MD2
« on: July 21, 2010, 01:28:07 AM »
Okay.. Looks like I am about to set another pitfall for myself here again. I did bring my lava shield this time to retain composure while people flame me. For the record, I am posting this as an FAQ or sorts, I would just keep this between Solofire and I, but I thought others would like to know as well.

Let me tell you of the events that transpired today:

Today in Solo's Server a certain individual was accused of utilizing an auto-aim script. Pandemonium ensued. One player, in an effort not to give the "cheater" any kills, made great efforts to kill himself with Ctrl+K before the alleged "cheater" could kill him. The "cheater" was using instant hit weapons with incredible accuracy. Two admins of reputable respect asked him to prove that he was not indeed cheating by recording his actions through the built in recorder or else he would be banned indefinitely. Try as he did, the "cheater" could not get his recorder to work, it would not remain turned on. Disgusted with everyone thinking the worst of him and crying wolf, I left the server before any judgment was passed.

I chose to defend him for the duration of the game because nobody else would. Like the rest, administrators, hosts, players, I too cannot be sure whether or not he was or was not using an auto-aim script. But that is my point. What would recordings prove? Nothing. Is it too hard to believe that this guy just has extremely good aim because he practiced and played frequently?

Let me spell out my main point here today so that there will be no confusion.
I just want the right thing to be done. If he deserves to be banned because of he was cheating, I will agree. If he deserves to be banned because he simply is that good, you can be sure that I will just stop playing Tribes right now because what's the point of being awesome if everybody thinks you are a cheater?

Solofire was talking to me about the possibilities of an auto-aim script. I am not refuting his claims, I would be exuberant to here him ramble on and on about the technical possibilities. I love hearing about programming and technical things. All I know of about the matter is what I gleaned from this article:

http://www.planettribes.com/lorne/autoaim.shtml

Keep in mind, this is an article from a Tribes programmer, one of the ORIGINAL coders for the game.

The article is very interesting, and has a very good story to it, but here is what the writer emphasizes.

1: Your accusations and votes to kick were completely unjustified. There really are players who can play like that. Some of them also have very good connections to the servers you play at, so they don't have to struggle with trigger lag like most of us do.

2: There is no client-side auto-aim!

Solofire is welcome to tell me otherwise on this technical matter.

So here is where we are now, two server administrators (of whom I like very much, very good practice for me  ;D) who claim, but cannot prove, that an individual is cheating and one alleged "cheater" who cannot prove that he isn't. Again, my purpose: All I want is the right thing to be done. Would it be right to ban a player who is not cheating?

Offline keen

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Re: Cheating in MD2
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2010, 01:37:13 AM »
Solo's server is rampant for cheating. Solo admits this himself. This is known. Play on funhouse :)
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Kotoko

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Re: Cheating in MD2
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2010, 01:46:58 AM »
See I don't know if the guy was cheating or not and being that I was an avid instagib player in my days of UT I know that there are some very VERY good players with instant hit weapons. None the less I do find it very odd he somehow couldn't get the ingame recorder working. I mean seriously now it's one of the few parts of the game that works without any ill effects from scripts or UI mods or anything else you have loaded.

Regardless of how good of an aim someone is they WILL miss some of the time. No one is a 100% perfect aim with any game. People do get pretty rabid whenever someone even hints that someone could possibly be cheating and I don't agree with that. I do also believe in an innocent until proven guilty mindset on most things. As for the impossibility of autoaim scripts. There IS a possibility in several games and there WAS one in prolific operation once on UT. The hole that allowed it was closed soon after but it was verified. Dynamix no matter how careful they tried to be could never be 100% sure it wasn't possible as no human writing code is perfect and there is always the possibility of loopholes to allow unintended effects. Just because no one had found it at the time that article was written doesn't mean someone couldn't. You hear people all the time saying you can't root a linux box but the first root kits were made for *nix based systems and NOT windows and there are still plenty of them around.

Edit: Oh yeah just an fyi even lawyers don't defend someone without doing ALOT of research and fact finding.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 01:49:36 AM by Kotoko »

Offline Corrosion

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Re: Cheating in MD2
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2010, 02:02:11 AM »
See I don't know if the guy was cheating or not and being that I was an avid instagib player in my days of UT I know that there are some very VERY good players with instant hit weapons. None the less I do find it very odd he somehow couldn't get the ingame recorder working. I mean seriously now it's one of the few parts of the game that works without any ill effects from scripts or UI mods or anything else you have loaded.


Yes, reminds me of some peoples laser rifle aim way back (and now still to a lesser extent).  I doubt its auto-aim but meh.

It is odd that the ingame recorder did not work.

I want names (looking through logs for them now).

I want you to read this well...

http://www.tribes2wiki.com/wiki/Cheat#Auto-aim

Did you have a demo from your point of view?  Was he using any other cheats? (The perm-IFF one noteably).  What weapons were they using?  

I wish I was on during this time...pretty sure I could have made things clear for the admins who probably haven't dealt with a cheater properly.

NOW for my personal opinion...

I doubt that anyone was auto-aiming (ESPECIALLY on solos XD).  The worst that could happen is perm-IFFs that are easy to figure out they are using (unless they are good but they don't have time to waste in MD2).

Whoever decided to make a mess probably sucks at playing the game and have never dealt with cheaters before. 

This matter should simply die.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 02:22:59 AM by Corrosion »
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Offline keen

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Re: Cheating in MD2
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2010, 02:24:42 AM »
There is clientside auto aim. It's called HappyMod2, and it only works on TN RC1, as RC2 stops this exploit. RC2 however is not required to play, so many cheaters default to RC1. This will change with TN RC3 as it will be a required update, and will also bring clans.

Also, Solo cheats on his own server, calling it a "hoster's privalege", as well as a good 5 of his admins. I have the admin command logs and know exactly who has been using which commands.
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Offline Corrosion

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Re: Cheating in MD2
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2010, 02:27:01 AM »
After reading through some chat logs...

My god you guys suck.

I have SEVERAL head shaped holes in my walls now thanks to you lot.
Aboyne (vb.): To beat an expert at a game of skill by playing so appallingly that none of his clever tactics or strategies are of any use to him.

Offline -Nitebot-

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Re: Cheating in MD2
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2010, 02:54:46 AM »
 The guy doesnt cheat, i played him this afternoon, while he is good with hitscan he does miss. Also wasnt to tuff to kill.
After 7 years of playing from what he told me this is to be expected.(a good player) i saw no weird movement, no weird weapon jerk which is a tell tail hm2 sign. He moved his mouse smooth and lead his targets very well. Having the LOWEST Ping and No PL doesnt hurt. (come to the fun house and let me snipe for 20 mins )

In respect to aim then his is on par with grims winds war dev keens corr furb might depending on which weapon they use. (no i didnt forget u other guys hehee)

Is it possible? yea its possible, but who and why would someone make a new hax ? 2nd if one guy is using it why wouldnt others in other servers be using it as well. I have yet to see anyting in classic or other servers i play.

For the record haxin the Ai aim subclass would cause the whole server to lag and crash. Making the server think your a bot would crash it, making your weapon work like a turrent will crash it. ( trust me on this ive played with them all for fun)

Some scripts give you acess to interpolate settings, however if i am not mistake that to is locked out as keen pointed out.

With the right IFF's aiming can be easier,um good crosshairs, custom huds, skins to will all enhance a person perspective of aim.


The point, none other than whats been made..

However IMO the guy just freaking good with the lasers.



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Offline Humans

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Re: Cheating in MD2
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2010, 03:12:36 AM »
I have seen people cheat without happymod.  And not just with hit-scan weapons.

Anyways, even if you see someone with great aim, and they don't aim smoothly, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are cheating.  I never aim smoothly, I add a little twitch to a lot of my shots.  (My aim also sucks lately but that's not the point)

Actually, I'm not sure what my point is here.  But there ARE cheats in the game still, but NEVER be too quick to call someone a cheater.  There are those few that just have god like aim, and even a few that just have really good days.
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Kotoko

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Re: Cheating in MD2
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2010, 03:15:38 AM »
I tend to agree but I couldn't say yes or no without either seeing the guy myself or some sort of evidence. I again stress I know plenty of people who were damn accurate with instagib rifle in UT. I played with many of them on a regular basis. One actually let me in on how he trained and it was simple and brutal. He just set up 16 bots on godlike AI and set their accuracy to max and went at it and tried to get a 1:2 K:D ratio. Trust me it is almost impossible since they shoot the second they see you and with max accuracy they only miss 1% of the time. You do things like that and you train yourself to work on pure reflex and not on "skill" as some people think of it.

Offline DarkBlade-

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Re: Cheating in MD2
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2010, 06:10:10 AM »
by any chance...was this person artic_winter

because if i recall he was one of the oldies that could snipe with the e-rifle o_0

Offline Drakethesly

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Re: Cheating in MD2
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2010, 08:22:04 AM »
I see your point dictator but looking at how many kills he has you would kinda think to yourself that it is near impossible to have that good of aim with those weapons and be that familiar with the mod unless he is a smurf. I don't like to pass judgment before proper proof is given but the evidence kinda stacks against him. I do believe that more than one day should be given to him to prove himself so he can clear his name before we ban him for good for something he may not be guilty of.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 08:32:08 AM by Drakethesly »
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Offline Corrosion

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Re: Cheating in MD2
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2010, 08:53:26 AM »
I see your point dictator but looking at how many kills he has you would kinda think to yourself that it is near impossible to have that good of aim with those weapons and be that familiar with the mod unless he is a smurf. I don't like to pass judgment before proper proof is given but the evidence kinda stacks against him. I do believe that more than one day should be given to him to prove himself so he can clear his name before we ban him for good for something he may not be guilty of.

What is he guilty of exactly?

There is no auto-aim.
Aboyne (vb.): To beat an expert at a game of skill by playing so appallingly that none of his clever tactics or strategies are of any use to him.

Offline Drakethesly

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Re: Cheating in MD2
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2010, 08:58:29 AM »
I am not saying he is guilty. there is no way for you to be certain that there isn't an auto-aim either.
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Offline Corrosion

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Re: Cheating in MD2
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2010, 09:09:18 AM »
Please read this...

http://www.tribes2wiki.com/wiki/Cheat#Auto-aim

I would also like to direct you to this...particularly the light defense demos.  The point of ths being it is very much possible to have good aim without an aimbot.

http://www.fantastic-incorporated.com/demos/
Aboyne (vb.): To beat an expert at a game of skill by playing so appallingly that none of his clever tactics or strategies are of any use to him.

Offline spacecowboy

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Re: Cheating in MD2
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2010, 10:45:31 AM »
What is he guilty of exactly?

There is no auto-aim.
Quote
//exec("scripts/autoexec/autoaim.cs");

/////////////////
// key binds   //
/////////////////
$happyaim_toggle_key =      "3";
//$happyaim_toggle_key =        "alt numpad4";   // the 3rd button on ms explorer mouse :)
$happyaim_tweak_increase =      "]";
$happyaim_tweak_decrease =      "[";


/////////////////
// config      //
/////////////////
$happyaim_firedelay =         50;
$happyaim_tweak_sniper =      3.5;
$happyaim_tweak_sl =          1.2;
$happyaim_tweak_change =      0.1;
$happyaim_target_teammates =  0;
$happyaim_sl_distance =       16.0;
there are the first few lines of autoaim.cs
i really dont think it matters in md2 nemore tho, maybe when laser did the same amount of dmg no matter how much energy u had, but now its kinda pointless.